Name: [Expert Panel] The Uncensored Truth: Navigating the Chaos of Modern Parcel Shipping
Uploaded: 2025-11-16T16:19:06.477Z
Duration: 1 h 3 min 8 s
Description: [Expert Panel] The Uncensored Truth: Navigating the Chaos of Modern Parcel Shipping

Transcript for "[Expert Panel] The Uncensored Truth: Navigating the Chaos of Modern Parcel Shipping": Hello, everyone, and welcome. I'm Katie Schroedel, and I'm the content marketing manager here at ProShip. I'm the moderator for today's session. I'm excited to dive into a topic that's been on everyone's mind, navigating the chaos of modern parcel shipping. And this isn't your typical webinar. We've got a great panel of experts here to give you the uncensored, no fluff truth on what's happening out there. So before we get started, I'll go over just a couple of housekeeping things. So submit your questions using the q and a function in the webinar. We'll tackle those at the end of the session. If you are on LinkedIn, please submit them in the chat. The webinar is being recorded. You should get a copy of it within the next week, and you can download any additional resources, from the related content section in the webinar. Finally, we do have a survey. If you could complete that, we'd really appreciate it. So we have some feedback for the next webinar. So with that, we will talk about who's here today. So I'm Katie Schroedel, content marketing manager at ProShip. I've been here for around five years. You might have seen my name on our podcast or some of our blogs. I'll go to our all star panel. Justin, go ahead. Let's hear your intro. Sure. Yeah. Justin Kramer. One of the technical cofounders of ProShip. I've been doing this for about twenty five years. And in that time frame, I've had the privilege of working with, several 100 customers across multiple continents and, being able to work on systems from just a few packages a day all the way up to over a million packages a day. So glad to be on the panel today. Thanks, Justin. Jack will go to you next. Hi. My name is Jack McCrom, and I am the director of optimization analytics at Reveal. Reveal is a company that's focused on, partial spend management with visibility. My personal experience, I've been in the industry for about ten years where most of that time has been advising the organizations of of all sizes on on how they can work with the carriers, strategize carrier networks, and really drive continued savings through the life cycle of their agreements. Excited to be here. Awesome. Thanks, Jack. Alright, Jamin. Hey. I'm Jaden Dick, and I lead Jadik advisory. I have been in the apparel and retail space for better part of twenty years and, specifically in the ecommerce space. And now I work with brands and retailers to help them optimize their their shipping as well as their upstream supply chain. Glad to be here. Awesome. Alright. Thanks, everybody. So let's get started. We're gonna start with the big picture. The volatility of tariffs and global sourcing is a massive headache for everyone right now. Jamin, I'll start with you from your perspective. How do you see this unpredictability affecting supply chain? And then how does tech enabled strategies? How do those fit into it? Well, of course, right now, this is a huge focus for everybody. Obviously, with all the changes in the tariffs over the past six to eight months, it's been very challenging for people to navigate the uncertainty out there and and also just to figure out where to place their bets, for the future supply chain. And so, you know, I'm spending a lot of time with people trying to figure that out, trying to figure out, k. If I'm moving away from one country into another one, how do I know that one's not gonna get hit, with with additional tariffs? So all of that has led to, some turmoil, but I think people are starting to figure out, k, there are some good options for me. There are some safer bets that we can we can start to rely on. But it has it has delayed some decision making for a lot of people, and and so I think now people are starting to, pick up the pace and try to figure out, okay, what's the tech that I need to help me make smarter supply chain decisions, and, and how do I start to implement that? A lot of people I'm working with are are looking at better planning tools, especially in the AI side. That's an area where, we're seeing a lot of development there, and that's that's helping a lot. And then also on the outbound small parcel space, people are starting to think about next year for their technology purchases. So that's what that's what I'm seeing right now. Sure. Jack, comment on your end. What do you think? Yeah. It's a great question. You know, tariff volatility is really hitting the market on on two fronts. And and, Jammin, I think you do a really good job of explaining kind of the disruptions we're seeing on the on the global supply chain side. You know, what what my team and I are really seeing a lot of in the market today is the impact from the demand side. You know, in preparing for this discussion with with the audience here, you know, I took a look at our our own package volumes year over year. We saw customers that, you know, volumes are down, nearly 30% year over year, and, you know, some less, some more. It it obviously changes, depending on the organization. But the fact is is that demand is really equally important, I would say, from the current environment that we're looking in right now. And so what what the conversations have really been for myself, my team, my company is we're seeing a lot of organizations really lean into the technology. There's been a a renewed focus really at all levels of organizations as to, you know, the true expense and, you know, just immense size of logistics spend. And so what I'm seeing a lot of customers lean into is understanding the costs. We're seeing customers look at, you know, how can they use software to drive smarter carrier negotiations. We're looking at, you know, looking at very specific points in contracts. You know, how much can I actually diversify from consumer bringing on an alternative carriers Even down to looking at SKU level profitability? You know, there was a Wall Street Journal article not too long ago that was talking about how many companies are revisiting the idea of free shipping even. So having the visibility just to look at how much is it actually costing my organization to send those packages to customers, what are SKUs that are profitable, what are SKUs that are really expensive. We're seeing a lot of organizations really lean into that side of of the technology and really try to drive that to, you know, to try to drive that cost savings efficiently in their own network while, facing these external pressures that we're seeing really across the board. Alright, Justin. I'll go to you. What are you seeing from our side? Well, and and there's a lot here. And I wanna point something out that as we as we down went through Jim and Jack to myself, we're going from strategy into, through, implementation into tactics. Right? And really, when you get down to the shipping software, it is really about those tactics. And a lot of those tactics that come from that informed strategy are gonna be things like the ability to, on a daily basis or even an hourly basis as necessary, Modify the inputs to your shipping software to take advantage of those strategies, take advantage of those changes, that that my co panelists would be recommending, that their products would be would be presenting to you. So, really, to break that down to something actionable, it's about exposing the the variables, thresholds, and things of that nature to you as a shipper so that so that as you say, oh, I need to make a change. I need to move volume over to this other carrier. I want to only, ship these SKUs with this particular carrier or what whatever the case may be. It's really about having software that allows you to do that real time. And, generally, the closer you can do that to the trailer, the more likely you are to be able to get the most effect out of the strategy that that, my co panelists can recommend. Justin, I think when we were talking about this this discussion earlier, you even drove down a little bit further and talked a little bit about table driven business rules. You wanna touch on that? Yeah. Table driven business rules are just a way to expose those, attributes, variables, and thresholds, be able to adjust, how you want something to work. Again, maybe it's it's one pound and under, five pounds and under, 20 pounds and under, maybe it's a dimension based item. It could be something based upon country of origin. K? And we are talking a lot about tariffs here. Right? So how we actually go about how you go about, modifying that without external help from a software engineer, I think that's where table driven business rules, in our case, allows our customers to have that that greater flexibility to pull those levers, turn those knobs, and set things where they want them set. Awesome. Alright. Well, we will move on. So building on that, the carrier market is shifting. I mean, we're seeing more than just FedEx and UPS. Jack, I'll start with you. How are shippers changing the way that they use carriers today, and then what are the big players? We'll talk a little bit about maybe Amazon. What are they doing right or wrong? Yeah. This is an exciting question, and it's it's really becoming topical today because we're seeing a a real paradigm shift within the market today. If you look back before 2020, before all the craziness over the past few years, the parcel market was growing at about 10% year over year, which is a pretty good clip of market growth. But really since 2020, we've seen that really plateau. And and the environment that we're living in is really a a matured a much more mature market than we saw, you know, really in the twenty teens. So in response, what we're seeing UPS, FedEx, doing is they're taking a very hard look at not just how they're doing business, but who they're doing business with. They're becoming much more rigid in the type of of, you know, discounts and the type of, contracts that they're offering to customers. And it's creating a real opening for alternative carriers, regional carriers, players like Amazon to really step in and fill those voids. So, you know, the question that you asked is, you know, what are they doing well? You know, what are they perhaps stumbling over? And I think the real challenge for the major carriers right now is, you know, the more that they continue to push some of these pricing increases midyear, and we're we're seeing a ton of them, The more they're unintentionally or perhaps intentionally pushing shippers to really open the door towards these alternative carriers. And the market and the statistics that we're seeing are really showing this. I mean, you know, between 2024 and 2023, we saw, you know, nearly 22% growth for alternative carriers in terms of the market share that they're taking up. And I think that the more we continue down this, you know, this trend of a mature market as we see that retreat by by carriers like FedEx and UPS pulling back from certain market areas, I think we're gonna continue to see that, market growth for alternative players in the industry, and I think shippers are really listening to that and resonating with with those advantages with those carriers. Damian, I know you've got a lot of thoughts on this. Let's let's hear them. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, Jack made some really good points there because, you know and I I think from a retailer or brand standpoint, there are some trends that are happening that that are leading to the same result, mainly a multi carrier environment. So number one, you know, I think the days of having one giant relationship with a giant carrier, and then you just sort of set it, forget it for three years or five years, it those are kinda over or they're quickly becoming over. And they're being replaced with, multi carrier relationships where you are able to take advantage of differentiated capability from each alternative carrier. And I also think there's a cost play there as well. And as as Jack mentioned, you know, some of these carriers are are saying no to some volume. They're saying, you know, UPS talked about their better not bigger strategy and that what that really means is saying no to some things. They're they're looking for parcels that fit well into their network. And so I think what that means as a buyer of services is you have to be looking at your, your parcel profile and you have to be thinking about that, you know, who's the best fit. So you're also thinking about customer driven, delivery, which is how do I take time out of the delivery? How do I take miles out of the delivery? That means we're moving from centralized to more distributed networks and a lot more, regional players. So those two things together are really driving people to think more in a more complex way about their their delivery network, and that means having a multi carrier strategy. Justin, I'll go to you. What what are you seeing on the regional front? I know Damon touched on it a bit. So we're seeing a lot, we're we're seeing a couple of different things. Number one and I I wanna go off of, one of the things Jack kinda brought up, which is we're seeing a lot of from from our national carriers, we're seeing a lot of of additional charges, accessorials, surcharges, things of that nature. And I think that what we're seeing is is, let's just call it, potential behavior modification, and more importantly, we're not seeing that from some of our regionals. Right? So if you've got a company that is charging you for residential delivery fees, what are they telling you? We don't wanna deliver to residences. Right? What what do you if you see a company that is charging you for weekend delivery, what are they telling you? We don't wanna deliver on weekends. That's because that's our agreement with the union or something of that nature. But the reality is is that that is that is you're being disincentivized to do that. Now as we look at a lot of these new regional carriers, they're not doing that. Now some don't even have peak season surcharges. Right? Instead, what they're saying is come to us. We may deliver seven days a week. There's no difference for for residential versus commercial deliveries, so on and so forth. And so what we're seeing is smart logistics managers are are understanding the psychology of their carriers. They built a team with people like those of us on this panel that see the big picture internationally, that it can evaluate the data and show, is my feeling that that these extra charges are costing me more money than somebody else is possible. And then finally, the one thing I wanna say is that there are a lot of carriers out there. K? And as you start to try them, yes, of course, you can ask Pete. You can ask around. You can ask your peers. You can go to shows like Parcel Forum and and and talk to the carriers directly. But you also wanna have a way to titrate that carrier in. Right? You don't wanna immediately wanna move 30,000 parcels a day from national carrier a over to, regional b. Right? Because, well, that's that's not the way any of us really like to do business. So when you think about that, you also wanna think about a process, a technology process we refer to as carrier volume balancing. That ability to give a certain amount of your product over, And then you can go ahead and leverage all of the, reporting and analytics to go, you know, so I I moved 10% of my product over, 10% of my shipments over. Am I getting the savings that I'm expecting? Or even with all those fees and disincentives, am I still better off using the national? K? And I think that's something that, that is a very good tactical addition for anybody going forward is to make sure that that that once you've determined, once you've looked at all those fees, once you've looked at what you expect to be charged, doing a proof of concept, moving over a small amount of data, and then working with other partners, building that larger team, in order to actually, and not actually prove to yourself that it is doing what you expect. Jack, I'll go back to you. We I've mentioned it earlier about Amazon. What are your thoughts about Amazon and the carrier market? Yes. That's a great great kickoff there. I mean, everybody's talking about Amazon today. We were consistently kind of looking at how they're approaching the market. And, you know, from what I'm seeing with the customers I've been working with is that Amazon has been extremely cautious in how they're approaching the market, and they're being extremely deliberate. They're not going after every shipper out there. They're going after, shippers that really fit within the network that they have today. And that's not to say that they're not going to grow. And it's not to say that they're not going to expand their their network. In fact, tying back to what we previously talked about, which is, you know, these major carriers in in the voice that they're creating. You know, UPS is a great example. They recently, I think, towards the middle of last year, announced a a retreat really from world deliveries. And what we saw in, you know, earlier this year is Amazon announcing a $4,000,000,000 investment in in the rural space. And so what we're seeing is that, carriers like Amazon are really targeting very, very strategic place to really cater to those to those shippers that, you know, do have a lot of forklift shipments or do have a lot of, shipments that may be going to specific markets. And so it's an intentionality with Amazon with how they're approaching the market, and I think it's just the beginning. This is really just Amazon dipping the toe in the water, offering some competitive pricing, fewer resident or fewer surcharges than the than the major carriers while giving that that prestige, in the name that goes along with Amazon. And so it's it's really fascinating to watch them as they approach the market, that really go after that volume, today. Yeah. And I think another carrier that we we haven't talked about yet is the United States post office. So, Justin, I'm going to go to you. What are you seeing with postal and and the USPS? Well, we're seeing a a a large increase in postal shipments done. And a lot of that comes down to the fact that the national carriers who used to do the first mile for the post office and, well, let's face it, a lot of smaller regionals that used to do first mile and expedited for the post office, that's not happening anymore. But we're seeing a massive, a massive push by the post office to get closer to their customers, to eliminate those expeditors, to to have those personal relationships, and to really ensure that that just like you might have your UPS rep, your FedEx rep, your your OnTrack rep, and and you're used to talking to them, they're part of your team to help solve problems, but now you can have a United States post office rep who can help you solve the problems that they're capable of solving as well. So this is a a really big shift in paradigm for United States post office. And and I think that, from what we've seen, for many of our customers, it's been very, very well. For very few customers, have we seen any negative from it? Most of them are just very happy with the fact that the United States post office is starting to be able to be treated like a regular carrier, so to speak. Now their label requirements will always be the the most strict, but, I think more importantly, we're gonna be able to get more services out of them, and you're gonna be able to use them, for more than just your sub one pound shipments, while maintaining, a great customer experience. Jamin, I'll go back to you. I know we talked about Amazon and and postal here. What what are your thoughts? Yeah. I I think it's excellent that we have, a new entrant in the market in Amazon over the past couple years, but also a new commercial strategy and commercial focus on the USPS side, which really is is pushing them to be more competitive, at different segments of the market. And and I think that's pushing UPS and FedEx, and and it's good for all of us, I think, in the end to have more options, more competitive pressure, and also more differentiation between the regionals and and the big national carriers and then USPS or US yeah. Postal service. So I I see it's a very welcome change in the market. You compare where we are today to, you know, five or eight years ago. I'd rather I'd pick right now, actually. I think it's a better time for, to be shipping, to be, engaging with carriers right now. So that's my perspective. Awesome. Alright. So from there, we will move on to peak season. So with peak season here, basically, many of our listeners are wondering what should they be doing now. Jack, what is your best advice for balancing, you you know, short term peak preparation with your long term strategy for the years ahead? Yeah. I I I think the important call out here is that peak is in fact it's arrived. You know, as as of right now, we we really haven't seen, all the carriers come in with their peak season surcharges, but it doesn't mean that, you know, peak isn't here. And that means that the first priority for a lot of shippers out there, especially managers, looking at the programs today is to make sure that the network is running efficiently from the day to day. That means closely monitoring carrier updates as they kind of come across the, the radar, keeping a close eye on unforced errors like, address corrections and carrier performance and really staying agile with those the service adjustments, making sure that the the shipments are arriving when they're supposed to be arriving to your the customers at a time when really, you know, every shipment matters, in the time that we're in right now. So I think that the first priority is just making sure that the network is running efficiently over the next, several months. That's certainly not to say you're not supposed to be looking at the long term. You know, what I what I like to encourage a lot of my customers is, you know, look at what it what your network is today and document what you think is going to be an improvement for next year. Look at what is going well today. Really focus in on the operational effectiveness of your team. And then once it's all over, review some of those operational changes that, you know, may not have really hit the mark, for your program. There's a lot that's going on right now, but, you know, from my perspective, the tactical is really gonna be the most important just to kind of monitor over the next few months. And making sure that you're using your network, efficiently is gonna set you up for long term success. Damon, I'll go to you next. Are there things we can still be doing now, or are you just looking ahead? Well, I mean, of course, between now and the end of the year, it's it as Jack mentioned, it's all about execution for most brands and retailers. And I think but, you know, I think of it sort of like the Super Bowl or something like that. By this time of year, you know, you've prepared and trained and analyzed, and now it's time to play well and hope your planning pays off. So that that's obviously the focus for most people. But, honestly, I tend to start thinking about January this time of year. You know, I start to think about, you know, there's no better time in the year to make big changes to your network, to your supply chain, your warehouse, than early in the year. And I want my teams to be ready to hit the ground running on January 1. So we're asking questions. How are we gonna reduce split shipments, miles traveled, the size of our boxes, automation? You know, what kind of changes do we need to make to our network? So I actually start thinking about that now even while we're trying to execute in q four. Awesome. Alright, Justin. How about you? What are you looking at short term, long term? Well, short term, now is the time to test a few things. Now maybe time to do some compression testing. In other words, don't pack shipments until 11:00 and then see how quickly you can catch up. Right? Test your temps. Test the features. Test your carrier volume balancing because we know that come peak, warehouse managers are known for restraining. I'll you know, if you can give me an extra trailer today, I'll take an one less trailer next week, you know. If can I push back my pickup time today, another hour so I can get more more items on there? Now is the time to run those drills. K? And secondly, one thing I really, really, like talking about, both both Jack and Gavin kinda alluded to it. Right? We're getting ready for next year. Right? We want to know what to fix. So one of the things I recommend to all of my customers is to document. Have your managers think about the three things that are important. Let me put my thumb back in there. Three things that are important. Right? We wanna know what worked and we don't wanna change. We wanna know what worked okay but can be improved. And we wanna know what didn't work at all and should be replaced. So by by having the managers write down those three things every week between now and January, by the time we get to January and and the three of us will show up at your door and go, alright. What do we wanna do this year? You're gonna know what you don't wanna change, what you wanna improve, and most importantly, and, this is usually the easy one, what just didn't work at all and needs to be fixed for next year. So we can get started early in q one so you're not rushing to try try to do things like, you know, like some people are right now trying to make all their changes and prep for peak, which as Jack mentioned, due to demand shaping, it's kind of already underway as people try to reduce the amount, as as companies try to pull forward those sales to reduce the amount that actually gets shipped to peak. Awesome. Alright. Well, this is a great segue into a bit of a debate that we had earlier. So are we in a buyer's market or a seller's market? Damon, I'll start with you from your point of view. Who holds the power right now? Okay. Yeah. This is, this is a fun one. I love this question, and I I don't think it's straightforward answer. I do tend to go with the buyer's market, but, it's a buyer's market with caveats, and here's what I mean. I think it's a buyer's market if you know where you fit in that market as a buyer. So we mentioned earlier, UPS has their better, not bigger initiative, you know, meaning they're turning away some some volume or they're focusing on on volume that is, quote, unquote, high quality revenue for them. And so I I do think it's it's a buyer's market if you are, doing the work to figure out how your business fits with, the carrier world. And, you know, back if I rewind a few years, you know, I had to I had to bend my business around my carriers a lot. And and I think it's time to undo that and start thinking what's right for my customers. Right? If my customers were were running this business, what would it look like? And then go to market with with carriers to satisfy their their needs and desires. So I I I see it as a, as more of a buyer's market. But, again, I think it's with caveats that you need to be a little bit more complex in your thinking. How dimensional are my parcels? How far away from my carriers am I? Do I use poly bags or boxes? All of those questions kind of figure into it. Jack, I'll go to you next. I think you're looking at the other side of the coin. Right? Yeah. And I just wanna touch on this. I I really love your response, Jim, because it's it's such a nuanced topic that it's not as simple as just it's a buyer's market or it's a seller's market. It's, you know, either or with a caveat to the other side. But where I typically am coming down on it, what I'm looking at with my customers is it really depends on the type of customer that you are for the carrier. And what I mean by that is if you are a single source, if you are a smaller shipper out there, it really can feel like a buyer's market. You know, we see all of these midyear pricing increases coming from from the major players, which, let's face it, most of us are tied up in some way, shape, or form. And if you really don't have that leverage or you haven't built leverage, it can really feel like a, you know, like a seller's market. When we kind of flip that coin and we look at the shippers that have really done the work of researching the market, they've been on top of a lot of these changes as they've kinda come down the the thread, and they've diversified their network. It that builds that leverage that really gives you the ability to to really make the market yours. It gives you the ability to diversify your network to avoid some of the charges that are really being enforced by by major shippers or even some of the alternative carriers. And it it really just kind of it builds that dynamic that you have to be, you you have to be much more sophisticated than you were, say, ten years ago. You have to know who is going to fit your market or who's going to fit your customers, how are you going to fit the shipper customer ideal customer profile or, excuse me, the carrier ideal customer profile. And then use that information to really put your pieces on the board in a way that really works for you and your business. The customers that I see really winning at the market today are the ones that are really taking the risks, the ones that are diversifying in a way that makes sense for their program. And they're really avoiding kind of the the sellers imposition of charges, new structures on certain surcharges in in areas of service. The ones that are affected, the ones that are winning are the ones that are embracing that rapid change from the shippers and building into or carriers and building into their network that flexibility to react, to pivot, to be able to make choices and decisions without having to accept it from the from the carriers. So if you are in a position where you are single source right now, I think the one thing that really changes the the answer to this question is what are you currently doing today to really build that leverage for yourself and give yourself kind of a a an escape hatch from a lot of the the pricing and positions that are coming down, from the carriers midyear. So it's a nuanced question. That's why I really love this conversation because there there's a lot of just interesting variations of it. There are a lot of caveats. And I think we all kind of we agree on some of the central tenants of it, but it oftentimes just depends on how you're approaching the market as a as a shipper and really as an adviser, which is the position we're sitting in today. Alright, Justin. Which which side are you sitting on? Are you buyer? Are you seller? Are you in the middle? I think it depends on how you're looking at it. Because if you if you look at the marketing that's coming from the national carriers, oh, they are telling you it is a seller's market. You either comply or you pay. K? And that that's kind of the way it is. But I think if you built a good team, right, if you've got good advisers, if you got people analyzing stuff, you've got good ability to execute, I I I think that's that flips things around. Right? It it's kinda how the phrase goes. You know, it's not what you know, it's who you know. K? And and because this stuff is changing all the time, because we're seeing new tactics by, the regional carriers, the, the the start up carriers, the national carriers, this industry has been in more flux since last year, than I saw in my first ten years in the industry. K? So it is changing really fast. And if you don't have a team to help you keep up with it, oh, it's a seller's market because they're just gonna they've got the data. They've got the the understanding of where the industry is going, and they will they will ensure that their profitability stays high. K? But that being said, I do think that by by having a team, especially as you get through being a midsize shipper, I have to admit as a smaller shipper, even with a lot of knowledge, there's only so much you can do. Two, maybe three carriers max, and you're probably gonna you're probably gonna be able to split out by either region or or product type, you know, weights, dimensions, things of that nature. But if if, as you start to get to be a midsize and larger carrier, there's I'm sorry. Mid size or larger shipper, there is a lot of things that can be done, a lot of help that can be had in the industry, and you can build a really great team. And many of us work together, at at customers in order to help go from strategy to execution, with the appropriate tactics in the middle, to make it so that you aren't on that other side and and and it is a seller's market to put you in the in the buyer's seat. That being said, overall, if you look at it, if you look at the overall pricing, the overall pricing is up. I'm gonna have to agree with Jack on that one. I mean, you're if you're spending less this year, than you did last year on logistics, probably because your volume went down, not because you got better deals. So that's, that's my final say on it. Sure. Alright, Damon. I'll go back to you one more time. Any any final thoughts on this before we go to our final advice? No. I think I think it's a great conversation, and and the points are well taken. I think we actually agree on on a lot here that, you know, if you understand how you fit, you're you're enabled with good technology, good data, and you're willing to go multi carrier, you you could be in a good position. But but yeah. I mean, the the overall market is up in a lot of cases. Alright. Well, from there, we'll go to some final advice. And, Jamon, I know you're just talking. I'll go back to you. What are you giving our audience to leave with? What's the one thing you want them to remember? Sure. So I think this has been a great conversation. I I think the overall priorities from my perspective right now in this market are number one, carrier contracts. You know, regardless of where you are in your contract life cycle with a carrier, I think it's always a good time to assess whether you're maximizing your small parcel small parcel value. And, you know, so for most shippers, it's small parcel shipping is on the d to c side is in the top three cost items in a p and l. So it's a huge lever for profitability. And number two, your your shipping data is a gold mine. I one thing I re routinely do is engage with parcel and freight audit firms. And literally every time I've done that, we come back with millions of savings for my business. So not not everyone's created equal in this area, but, you know, there are a lot of good partners who can look at your business and analyze it to figure out where the opportunities are. And then I think lastly is just developing a carrier strategy that balance that matches your business. So what's what's right for your customers and your network? And just to mention that a carrier balance strategy, you know, how are you gonna phase in new carriers? Those are the things that are kind of top priority for me. Awesome. Alright, Jack. I'll go to you next. What do you wanna leave our audience with? Yeah. I I think there are really three things that that really sum up my takeaways, and these are things that I like to echo to to my customers on a daily basis. The number one, takeaway right now ties into just in what you said. The first ten years of your your experience in the market is, you know, was a lot less complex than it is today. And what I what I really encourage the audience to do is follow those carrier updates as they're coming across the wire. You know, many times we're seeing these updates that are being pushed across, the changes in in definition, the changes in surcharges, new surcharges coming out of nowhere. They're coming across at such a rapid clip that it really is just almost overwhelming. And so the way that I often encourage the the customers to really view this is follow you know, go on to UPS, go on to FedEx, the the websites, and look at what those changes are on a weekly, if not daily basis, just to make sure you're aware of these changes occurring as they happen in real time. The second thing is, you know, Jam, and you touched on this, but with the carrier agreements that you have in place today, because the paradigm is shifting and we're moving away from a once a year GRI to this, you know, continuous pricing, change over time, is that the the onus is on shippers really to go back to the carrier and continue to negotiate contracts and agreements. It's not a it's no longer a static one time for a fee for an agreement life cycle. It is a continuous activity that must be embraced to really stay ahead of the curve and really build that, that leverage, that negotiation power that we discussed in with the last topic. And the third item is is, you know, with a lot of lot of teams, many of us really don't have the resources to expand to all of these areas to cover all of the bases. And so I'd encourage you if you're in that position where you're looking for, you know, how do can we, you know, how can we build this leverage? How can we strategize going forward? Tapping into just such the the large network of professionals and just advisers out there that are able to kind of help guide some of these topics, over the course of of time. I mean, there's significant savings to be found really within the market today, and having that partner to be able to to help you along the way is really a a good foundation for being able to build success. And not just build success, but win in an increasingly complex environment. So those are really my three things. Focusing on the carrier updates, negotiate consistently, and bring in partners and allies where you can. Alright. Thanks, Jack. Justin, we'll go to you. What what are you what's your final advice? I also have three things. Number one, like we've shown on this on on this, webinar today, build a team. K? Between the three of us, we've got a huge amount of knowledge. We may not have the knowledge you need, but you can build teams like the three of us to help advise, to help understand what's going on globally, nationally, strategically, tactically, from a carrier's level, from what we're seeing other companies do, so on and so forth. So so build a team. You don't have to do it yourself. I'm with Jack though. Your logistics manager probably should get used to just a continuous negotiation site cycle. But that's number one. Build a team. Number two, have flexible systems. I'm not just talking about the multi carrier shipping software. I'm talking from your ecommerce suite through your ERP, WMS, OMS, maybe even CRM. You you need to be able to flex. As as it as advice is given, if you have appropriate separation concerns and, IO between them, input output between them, you should be able to be rather flexible and and flex and move based upon the advice that your internal and external team members are providing you. And then finally, I can't say it enough at this time of year, get your managers ready to take notes. Right? What you wanna keep, what needs to be improved, and what needs to be replaced. I have given this advice for probably the past five or so years, and every company I've seen that has done this, their next year is night and day compared to, compared to it. And this is for companies that have done well. Right? Once who said, you know, peak wasn't that bad. They're following peak because they kept the good things. They, they improved the might they did minor improvements where it was necessary and major overhauls where it meant the most. K? Which meant that their subsequent peak season was even better, and they were able to, experience they gave to to their customers was even better, which, of course, drives more returns. So so for mine, it's the team. It's the, it's a flexible software stack, and it is start your documentation so that you know what to do next year. Start it now. K? That would be my advice. Love it. Justin, I've heard that that document strategy, I've heard that described as a stoplight meeting. You've got your green light, doing your yellow light, what you need to review, and then red. Now we're not doing it anymore. So weekly stoplight meeting. So there you go. Alright. So we appreciate all of that awesome advice. We've got some questions in q and a. If you've got more, please keep submitting those. But with that, we will move into these questions. So first one, from a practical standpoint, where should we begin with new technology like AI and automation, and what's a low hanging fruit or specific tool we should be looking for to get started in our warehouse? Jamin, I'll throw this one over to you. Well, sure. There's couple couple questions in there. I think, from an AI standpoint, it's tough to sort out which which things are kind of hype and which things are actually useful. The areas that I've seen are maturing faster are in building a digital twin. So this works well on the, you know, for larger multi node networks, as well as for inbound supply chains. So that's something that if you have a supply chain like that, if you have a distribution network like that, partnering with, one of the big providers on that to simulate what your network could look like using, you know, full year worth of parcel data, you can learn a lot about your network with low risk and run a few different scenarios, without breaking your your customers. And so I think that's that's one that I I personally like. It's it does take some effort and and work to get going. And there are lesser versions of that that you can do without hiring Microsoft or somebody to come in. You can just there's paper and pencil versions of this too where, you know, just thinking through, with, you know, some data support how if I was to change one variable in my network, would it, you know, would it get better or worse? Would delivery get better or worse? Would my cost go up or down? But I'm a big fan of of that kind of thing using data to simulate what your business could look like. Awesome. And, Justin, I'm gonna go to you. I love your take on AI and where it belongs and where it does not. So I'd love you to kinda lay that foundation maybe for this this person who asked this question. Well, first, I I love AI. K? But I think we need to break down AI and discrete logic into their component parts. And when we talk about AI, if we're if this is like a Scooby Doo episode where we pull the mask off, At the end of it, it is probability and statistics. K? So knowing that, if we apply that where we want where we need it, it makes a lot more sense. Like like Jaman mentioned, if we move an origin point, now we're looking at probabilities and statistics based upon all the data that we have as to what that's going to do in large numbers. K? Lots of zeros in those numbers usually. K? For deterministic, algorithms, this is where we want things where we need exact numbers. K? I don't know about y'all's accounting department, but my accounting department does not like it's gonna approximately cost this much. K? They want to know down to the penny on a per shipment cost. They'd also my customers don't want us to try to hallucinate a label when we're actually delivering something. Right? So there's all these things where you wanna say, we wanna use the right tool for the right situation. And AI has got great applications, ever increasing applications where statistics and probability are the problem set. Discrete logic is always gonna be useful where there is an actual there is an one actual answer to be done. So balance those tools where you need to, the wrench where you need the wrench, the hammer where you need the hammer, and what you'll find is is that you'll be applying better tools to the problem sets that you already have. Awesome. Alright. Here's another question. We have a ton of our own shipping data, but we're not sure how to use it to our advantage. How can we leverage our own data to gain negotiating power with our carriers? Jack, I think I'll start with you and then maybe head over to Jamin. Yeah. There are this is one of my favorite topics because logistics itself, the amount of data that we're constantly running into and then how it relates and varies up with other systems of of conversations, just it builds this wealth and this this massive, complexity in terms of what do we do with all of this information. And the fact is is, you know, there are a few recommendations that I have for not only my customers, but also the team that I that I operate with. You know, as we continue to embrace this, new technology that's coming down the pipe, and I I think this ties into the previous topic, but leveraging those tools that are available to you that are being offered by major providers, whether it's, you know, Microsoft through Power BI, whether it's through a provider like Reveal with with our AI technology, using that information to help analyze the trends and that wealth of information to draw out. You know, here are the trends. Here is why the the information is moving in the way that it does. It really give you a a good understanding of your own program and your shipping profile and analyzing the important KPIs that are really relevant to making decisions and not only making decisions, but making smart decisions in the long run. So it's leaning into the technology and the solutions that are available to shippers that really can help break down that information. And a lot of this is really accessible. I mean, I I logged into a a Power BI model the other day, and you can already see Microsoft incorporating some of these analytical tools that are available for the everyday user. So, I mean, at every level of the of the stage, you you have access to the data from the carriers. And then using the other tools that are out there and available to you can really make that much more accessible and give you results much more quickly than, say, you know, traditionally trying to parse it together in in an Excel file. So there's a lot of tools that are out there that are designed to handle kind of the increasing, amount of information that is really coming through. And I I would just encourage everyone on the on the call, everybody listening, to really embrace those tools and really leverage them to make your day to day life a lot easier and make much more sense and much quicker and more informed decisions. Go ahead, Damon. Yeah. Definitely. Like I said, shipping data is like gold mining for me. I I love shipping data. And if you know where to look, you know, you're gonna find savings. So some of it points towards your internal team or your warehouse, and some of it points to the carrier. Right? So an example, looking at your, you know, your weights and dims and, you know, are you how much error are you shipping unintentionally? Is there something you can be doing with better cartons, or with the pack stations or the way just the way that the goods are packaged? That's one thing. But then something sometimes they look at the carrier and you you're getting charged the wrong thing. You know, a good example of this is fractional weight or fractional charges. So, you know, a lot of carriers round up. If it's 1.1 pound, they go up to two. 1.3, they go to two. Right? That's not how I learned to do it in in school. So, you know, there are ways to negotiate that. There's ways to negotiate the dim factor and all of that. So but you have to look at your your data with those questions in mind. There's also answers about your network that could be hidden in there. But, you know, you have to look at it and figure out what can I use based on what I've pulled out of this data and now go sit down with my carrier and say, let's, you know, let's negotiate? So there's a lot in there and I think that's probably the highest return effort you could do. Alright. Awesome. We'll go to the next one. Final One more comment there, Katie. I I think, Jamie, you hit on a really important topic, which is asking the questions of the data. What is a really great activity that I love to do? It's just what do I want out of a shipping program before even addressing the the data itself? There are so many just different pitches out there, so many carriers, so many ways that you can just take the data, whether you want lower cost, faster service, whether you want, you know, better packaging and better customer experience. There's so many different ways that you can just slice and dice the data. Setting that lighthouse, that, you know, Northern Star before you even get into the data can really help guide activity in getting the most out of the data in a really efficient manner rather than trying to get everything at once. So I I really just wanted to dig into that. I I love the fact that you you asked that question, and I think that's a really important takeaway here. It's just ask the question before you even get into the data as to what you really want out of your program. I think that can really pay dividends and and paint a strategy before it even begins to to materialize. Agreed. Mhmm. Great call up, Jack. Alright. Next question. Final mile is a big struggle for us right now because it's where things get expensive and complex. How can we move forward without falling into a trap? Damon, how about you, start on this one too? Yeah. This is I I get that feeling completely. I understand. And, you know, I I won't pick on specific carriers right now, but, you know, they have A lot of these carriers have very, very talented negotiation teams and and pricing teams. Okay? And they are going to, signal to you that you're just in no no position to get a better deal from them. And sometimes that's true, but often it's not. And I think, you know, there's a lot of things we just talked about data. There's a lot of your fate that's in your own hands. You can take control of your own fate a little bit by just looking at what you're doing. But also then working with your your carriers. I think number one thing you can do is just give yourself options. We've covered multi parcel or multi, carrier strategies here, but giving yourself an option to move volume away into some other carrier is super, super powerful. And it it gives you a little bit of confidence, I think. So that's that's number one thing I would do. Alright. Awesome. Okay. Get to another question here. With all the new questions if I could add to that one real quick? Yeah. Go for it. I'm gonna go back to one of my one of my three three takeaways, build a team. Right? You can, of course, work with analytics folks. You can work with strategy folks. But let's face it. We're a couple weeks away from Parcel Forum. Go to shows like that. Talk to talk to your peers there. K? Your peers are great part of your team. And while you're there, feel free to come and see a couple of my speeches. But no. Seriously. Talk to the peers. See how it's going with them. It's a great place to actually get that real world feedback unedited by, let's just say professionals like the three of us who may, may make sure that that that we're still friends with those carriers later. So that would be my thing. Build your team. Yeah. Yeah. Good ad there. Alright. With all the new tech out there, this is a two part question. How do we know when it's the right time to invest in a brand new system versus just trying to optimize? And then the second part is about avoiding shiny object syndrome when it comes to tech investments, telling what's worth the what's worth the investment versus what's industry buzz. Justin, I think I'll start with you on this one. One of my one of my co panelists said something about know your plan. K? As you start to look at new tech, understand what your need is. K? Is your need execution? Is your need, rate shopping? Is your need a a broader broader support for carriers? K? Is your need communication, with your OMS and investor ecommerce suite? Know what your need is because then you can if if you've got a good understanding of your need, then when you're going to companies and they start talking about, you know, buzzword bingo effectively, you can go, so how does that help my need? Okay? How does it solve my problem? Do you, and then secondly, use, references. K? Again, I talked about about building that team. Right? This is another one where it's a temporary member of your team. Somebody who solved that problem or at least, at least a large portion of that problem in a similar way you have that problem to solve. K? So that's number one to me. When you really break it down to just the need, I mean, you start to realize, do I really need to spend several $100 on a digital piece of artwork? No. So somehow, none of us are surprised that NFTs didn't work out very well. So going back to the need. Jamin, you look like you got something to add here. Yeah. I mean, this is this is a tough challenge. And more than ever, I think right now, the the the air is full of noise about things that are gonna transform and change your business and but who knows. Right? Who knows? And so figuring out what's real and what's not is hard. The way that I do it, you know, and Justin just mentioned references. I just double down on that one. That's super important. If if they can't give me a couple of customers that I can go sit down with and talk to about it, then I'm the guinea pig. Right? They're they're they're testing on me. And and I so I you know, that's that's the one way that I do it. Mhmm. Yeah. Awesome. Alright. Next question here. This is probably the last one we're gonna hit today. But if national carriers are becoming more selective, what can small or midsize shippers do to make themselves more attractive customers? Damon, you wanna tackle that one first? Yeah. I think we covered some of this a little bit, but, you know, part of it is figuring out I talked about figuring out which part of your assortment or your shipping profile matches to the right carrier. And and so going back to a little more detail, do you have parcels that go from zero to 15 pounds? Well, then maybe you have three or four segments in there that are good for various carriers. And there are carriers who want that zero to one and then others that want the one to three and and and so on. So figuring that out and figuring out okay. So somebody's really hungry for this. And, you know, USPS is gonna, let's say, they take my rural deliveries or Amazon now will take my rural deliveries. Once I take that out of the mix, is my remaining set apart? That, I think, is super important. And, you know, but it is easy to kinda look at your at your world and say, well, I'm not shipping a 100,000,000 parcels a year. I don't have any leverage. Not necessarily true. Alright. Jack, anything you wanna add here to this one? Yeah. I want I wanna echo some of what Jammin said. You know, with the with the market evolving in a way that it has, there's a lot of different niche markets. There's a lot of segmentation in every carrier out there has an ideal customer profile. So similar to, I think, what you were alluded to, Shannon, a little bit, which is just understanding what that ideal customer profile is for the carrier and trying to align yourself to that. You know, wearing the hat of a carrier before you enter into negotiation knowing what you're going to ask or what you're going to try to align with really can help you. And I'll give you a really specific example. With all of the surcharge changes that we've seen from major carriers over the last couple of years, there are a couple of trends that can be derived. Number one, they're trying to get more efficient in how they're they're stacking their trucks, how they're operating their network. That includes pulling back from those rural delivery zones. It includes in implementing very large, surcharge increases on larger bulky items. You know, focusing on those things and identifying this is something that is clearly unwanted by this carrier, and it's going to be continued to be a pain point going forward. You need to understand and recognize those very quickly so that you can pivot and make decisions to try to avoid giving them what they're trying to price out of the market right there. And, Justin, I think you did a good job of of mentioning this earlier, which is, you know, what is the one way of, you know, really making sure that you don't get the business going forward? And I think I butchered near this context here, but one way of making sure that you don't get a particular version of business is continue to price it out of existence. It's no with the dollar sign attached to it. So making sure that you're aligned with those ideal customer profiles is really gonna pay you dividends going forward, and it takes works. It takes takes a lot of research. Justin, I know you've got something to add here. Go ahead. Absolutely. So I know I just said define your need. But as a vendor, sometimes I have to challenge your need. This this, questioner implies that they need a national carrier. Do they? K? So everything that the the two gentlemen just said is really about once you know your needs, can you use all these other there's so many carriers out there. Right? You got big and bulky front door collection. You've you've got things going to major cities. You've got Veeho. You've got, OnTrack. You've got just all of these so many carriers out there. We support over a 145 carriers. K? That's a lot of carriers. K? You can put a couple of those together and and have a lot of coverage. Do you actually need a national carrier? And your answer might be yes, in which case, I I defer to my, my co panelists and everything they just said. But my number one thing for you is, are you sure you need what you think you do? Can I just pile on there for a minute? Because I love that. I I think here's a good example. If I have a national carrier and I learned from my data that I'm overserving some customers, let's just say that. Right? So, like, I I've promised them a four day delivery or something, and I'm delivering a lot of them in two. That means, like, there's an opportunity to downgrade my shipments and still meet promise. And are the national carriers gonna do that for you? Don't bet on it. Right? So maybe, maybe not. But, you know, smaller carriers, a lot of them will. And so there there's just opportunities like that. And so we've we've talked a lot about spreading the love around, and I think that's a big takeaway here. Awesome. Alright. Well, if we didn't get to your question, we will pass it on to our speakers. They'll follow-up after this. But, in closing, I just wanna thank everyone for joining us today, especially our three experts who are here answering all of these questions for this this awesome discussion. But we appreciate you joining us, so have a great day. Hopefully, we'll talk again soon.